Wednesday, December 12, 2012

Cue the Ignorant Christian Commenters

Chipmunk animation
The Atheist Alliance International attempted to put up a website: Atheist Census last week. It's a site that pretty much does as it says - a voluntary census of atheists around the world. I managed to take it within the first 17 hours before it was taken down in a Denial of Service (DOS) attack.

While reading up on the incident, I noted that the Christian Post had an article about it. I was curious what a Christian perspective on it would be, but as usual, the Christian Post is fairly fair and neutral.

The commenters, on the other hand... This one caught my eye.


It is so sad to hear of so many lost souls. But, Christ was all about freedom of choice. He doesn't force himself on anyone. However, education doesn't always mean that a person has done the research needed to come to a conclusion either for or against a thing. I have know many people who say what they believe before having anything to build that belief on. I want Atheist to have the right to believe whatever they choose to believe. But, frankly I don't get it. I don't see any organization for people who don't believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or any other fictional characters. That kind of makes me think that perhaps they do protest to much... Just say'n. But, whatever you believe you should have the right in this country to believe it, say it, write it, teach it, or follow it without narrow minded bigots harassing you for it. I have seen Christians harassed for their stand on their beliefs to many times to condone this type of behavior. A good example would be Chick fil A. The rants on line, in the media, and at the local businesses pushed hard against the belief system of one of it's leaders showing a complete lack of tolerance for different views. I hope the intolerance that Christians have experienced for so long will not be something that we adapt as our own.
Let's take this apart, shall we?

It is so sad to hear of so many lost souls.
Is she talking about us? I don't have a soul, as far as I know. Ah, that's it. It's lost. That's why I don't have it.

One has to admire the condescension - we're lost and confused and in need of guidance. I could say the same for you. I'm not kidding, I love a good application of condescension.

 But, Christ was all about freedom of choice. He doesn't force himself on anyone.
True! We do have a "choice" - believe in him or burn. On top of that, just to increase the challenge level, God decided to set it all up so that belief in Jesus was unbelievable to a rational mind.

Technically, putting a gun to someone's head and saying "Do _____ or you get a bullet to the brain" is a choice, but it's a rather crappy one.

The critical aspect of choice is that one's decision comes without institutional criminalization. For instance, I don't have a choice about whether I'm allowed to sock random people in the stupid face. It's against the law. Likewise, I don't have a choice about not believing (as though belief were subject to the will) in God and not being sent to pound-you-in-the-ass theistic prison.

So no, it's not a "choice."

However, education doesn't always mean that a person has done the research needed to come to a conclusion either for or against a thing. 
I agree that being educated != being correct. It does, however, increase the chances of that. When one is more familiar with humanity's long imaginative history of making up gods and religions, or become familiar with the sciences that demonstrate that their religious beliefs are wrong, and especially become familiar with the psychology that obliterates the credibility of most of the "personal experiences" that are professed by many theists, it does tend to make one's position more confident.

Notice that the author is introducing a shifting of the burden of proof, a pinch of straw man, and 1/4 stick of butter.

I'm not "against God" as much as I am against the stupid crap his followers pull, such as, for instance, oh I dunno ... DoS attacks against people who are sick of being marginalized by the very same (of course, I'm assuming the DoS attack was religiously motivated here).

More to the point, I don't have to be educated to not accept the author's belief. The reason I don't believe them is because they've repeatedly failed to meet their burden of proof.

My question to the author would be, "How much time have you spent researching all of the other religions ever conceived? You've got about a million gods to research. Have you at least read the Qu'ran?"

I have know many people who say what they believe before having anything to build that belief on.
Yes, that tends to happen when parents raise their children religious, abusing the tendency of children to just believe whatever is told to them.

 I want Atheist to have the right to believe whatever they choose to believe.
Thanks! That right wasn't voluntarily granted to us by you, though. We have to take it by force on a fairly regular basis, because the theists in power don't tend to want people to have that freedom.

But, frankly I don't get it. I don't see any organization for people who don't believe in Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or any other fictional characters. 
I'll cut you a deal. When large groups of people start trying to take over the country in the tooth fairy's name, deny contraceptives and abortion rights because of their belief in the tooth fairy, pass laws banning any criticism of the tooth fairy, or pass laws trying to replace science education with tooth fair myth, or having judicial decisions being based on what the judge thinks the tooth fairy wants, or spending tax payer money on tooth fairy projects, or being denied jobs by employers who don't want to hire tooth fairy non-believers, loss of friends and family who "disown" you for not believing in the tooth fairy, or have printed on all our money "In tooth-fairy we trust"...

When it gets that bad, I guarantee that you'll have "atoothfairyists" groups and organizations popping up, because at that point, it will be sorely needed, for nothing else but to create a "safe zone" for such people to live their lives outside of persecution.

The irony of all this is that Christians in the U.S. are whining about persecution while not actually being persecuted, but rather having their persecution stick taken away, that they were using to persecute others.

That kind of makes me think that perhaps they do protest to much... Just say'n. 
You're right. If we go ahead and ignore the above list of actual things we're protesting, we can just spin this whole ordeal into the idea that atheists really do believe in God, they are just in denial.

I think the above knowledge constitutes "education", by the way. You know, having a clue what's going on in society around you (There's my heaping dose of condensation back at you).

But, whatever you believe you should have the right in this country to believe it, say it, write it, teach it, or follow it without narrow minded bigots harassing you for it. 
Yes, thanks to the constitution and judicial precedent - the concept of secularism that the religious right is furiously trying to dissolve or deny even exists, so they can complete their takeover of America (look up "Dominionism")

... and of course, these "rights" aren't always actually enforced.

In my first job out of college, just before my job interview, the employer was asking job applicants whether they were Christians  His employees urged him to stop because that was illegal, and his response was  "well I don't want to hire any devil worshipers".

That kind of discrimination is almost impossible to prove, because the employer can then decide not to hire a person for a bogus reason like "well this person wasn't qualified."

I can appreciate that you think that's how it should be, though. Too bad your kind isn't actually allowing that, as much as they can achieve (which just might have something to do with our protests, just FYI)

It's basically common knowledge in the atheist community. If you want a job, be in the closet, unless you're sure you can find one that won't discriminate.

A good example would be Chick fil A. The rants on line, in the media, and at the local businesses pushed hard against the belief system of one of it's leaders showing a complete lack of tolerance for different views.
No, Chick-fil-A is a bad example. As usual, another Christian fails to understand what that was all about. Speaking of intolerance, since you're opposed to intolerance, how would you feel about a company that has repeatedly spent money trying to enforce intolerance of homosexuality, both in the U.S. and abroad?

That would be your cherished Chick-fil-A.

Their belief system wasn't the issue. Their actions were.

I'm not one of those blanket "intolerance is bad" people. I think there's good intolerance and bad intolerance. It's good intolerance to pressure a company from executing bad intolerance.

I'm sorry, but these issues are a bit more nuanced than your current over-simplified understanding of reality.

I hope the intolerance that Christians have experienced for so long will not be something that we adapt as our own.

You mean, like the intolerance you experienced when you ran the world for hundreds and thousands of years? Do you have the cognitive level to perhaps understand that what you've been experiencing is a backlash?

How can you speak of "intolerance for so long" when Christians make up something like 80% of the U.S.? In the 1950s, during the McCarthy era, people were ostracized and blacklisted for being atheist, because those godless communists were atheists, therefore one was probably one of them.

Please look up some reports of religious-based discrimination and get a handle on the Christian privilege you all have been enjoying in this country, pretty much since its inception.



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